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Adventure Nannies On Air
The team behind Adventure Nannies is joined by industry experts and dear friends to share anecdotes and resources for nannies, childcare providers, and families. Adventure Nannies is a nationwide agency that helps humans find the support and tools they need to build their dream lives. They have been featured in the New York Times, Forbes, Fortune, and Marie Claire and are well-known in the industry as being progressive innovators and advocates.
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Adventure Nannies On Air
The Importance Of Outdoor Play for Early Childhood Development with Angela Hanscom
Angela Hanscom, occupational therapist and visionary founder of Timbernook, takes us on a fascinating journey through the critical importance of outdoor play in child development. "Nature is the ultimate sensory experience," she explains, revealing how modern childhood's increasing indoor confinement is fundamentally altering children's neurological development.
With alarming clarity, Hanscom shares that today's children sit approximately nine hours daily, severely restricting movement patterns necessary for healthy development. The consequences manifest in surprising ways – children literally falling out of chairs, bumping into each other, and struggling with sensory processing. These aren't merely behavioral issues but symptoms of underdeveloped vestibular and proprioceptive systems – sensory networks crucial for body awareness, coordination, and emotional regulation.
Through compelling stories from her Timbernook program, Hanscom demonstrates how authentic outdoor play creates profound developmental opportunities impossible to replicate indoors. A child climbing trees, building forts, or catching frogs in mud puddles receives full-body sensory input that integrates their neurological systems in ways small boxes of sand in clinical settings simply cannot. When adults step back and allow children to navigate their own conflicts and creative endeavors, remarkable learning unfolds – from boundary-setting to empathy, problem-solving to emotional regulation.
Particularly moving is her observation of "play-deprived" urban children who approach outdoor experiences with palpable urgency, making the most of limited time in nature. This reinforces the deep biological need for these experiences across all demographics and environments.
Whether you're a nanny, parent, or educator, this conversation will transform how you view those muddy clothes and risky climbing adventures. The next time a child spins in circles or jumps in puddles, you'll recognize it as essential neurological development rather than mere play. Ready to support the children in your life through meaningful outdoor experiences? Start by giving them time, materials, and the precious gift of stepping back.
Learn more about timbernook here: https://timbernook.com/
Purchase Angela's book, Balanced and Barefoot here: https://amzn.to/43vR3El
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Welcome to Adventure Nannies On Air. Today's episode was recorded live during one of our Summit Sessions as a part of our free ongoing educational webinar series to support nannies and professional child care providers to elevate their careers and enhance their skills. If you like what you hear, you can catch the full episode on our YouTube channel or register for our next Summit Session at AdventureNanniescom slash Summit dash Sessions. Welcome to tonight's Summit Session. I'm Regan Fulton, I'm the Marketing Director at Adventure Nannies and I'll be tonight's host, and we have the amazing Angela Hanscom here. Today's topic is one that I am personally super passionate about. If you've ever heard me talk, you are not going to be surprised that I am personally super passionate about. If you've ever heard me talk, you are not gonna be surprised that I reached out to this incredible person to tell us all about the profound impact of outdoor play. Taking care of children, as you guys know, really means that we embrace the opportunities to explore, learn and grow, and I hope you know and if you don't already, you're gonna learn about how powerful it is to do those things in the outdoor world. So Angela Hanscom is a true champion for the importance of outdoor play. She's the visionary founder of Timber Nook and has transformed how we think how I personally think I know about nature-based experiences for children. She's the acclaimed author of Balanced and Barefoot, which is the first book I recommend to nannies who want to learn more about nature play, and it's a book that beautifully illuminates the critical role of outdoor engagement in early childhood development and really inspires families and educators to foster environments where children can move freely, take healthy risks and develop essential skills through joyful exploration. Today she's going to share some of her perspective, pastoral strategies and invaluable advice how we can all embrace the power of outdoor play. So get ready.
Speaker 1:Welcome, angela. Thank you for having me Absolutely so. I know this one wasn't on the list, but I'm going to kick off with a question just to get the conversation started. When we were emailing earlier today, I saw in your subject, or in your signature line, the quote that if anybody in here has ever been into a presentation of mine about nature play, you probably have seen, because it's been in my slides, and that is that nature is the ultimate sensory experience. So to kick us off and we'll talk a little bit more about Timber Nook and your story, but just tell us about that quote. What does it mean to you, and why is it important enough that it's in your subject line?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. Well, it is part of my story but I've worked in all different settings and clearly an occupational therapist will work indoors with children. So you know, when I started this work with Timberknock there was not a lot of OTs outside, you know, in the woods treating children or you know in giant mud puddles. It was very much that we would bring swings indoors, we bring a little box of sand inside and call that sensory and we also engineer our clinics to be sensory, like we'll have a balance beam with little plastic pickies on it and call that a sensory experience. And the more I did Timber Nook and I know like we're kind of jumping ahead a little bit but the more I realized that nature was the ultimate sensory experience and what we see out in the woods is you cannot replicate in a clinic setting or in a classroom setting.
Speaker 1:So tell us about that. Like, how did you get from that occupational therapist clinical setting, what was that journey like to create Timber Nook and to move away from that kind of more clinical, traditional occupational? Because that's you know, that's what I always say when I'm giving my presentations. I'm not the expert, I'm not an occupational therapist, but this lady she is, so you should listen to her. So I want to hear you know how did you get from that clinical setting into the nature play and transition it there?
Speaker 2:That was kind of my dream, but God had other plans for me, because just a series of events happened in my life that I had no control over, basically. And what happened next was I kind of joined a mom's group, because that was the thing to do at the time, to meet other moms, and I had people asking me questions. They knew I was an occupational therapist and one of them's, my daughter, is spinning in circles all the time. You know, you're an OT. Why is she doing that? And I was like I don't know. And then there was, you know, a little boy that was having trouble paying attention in preschool and she was also like why is he having trouble paying attention in preschool? So it's just interesting questions. And I just kept paying attention.
Speaker 2:And then my daughter turned five, finally, and it was time for her to go to kindergarten. And I remember thinking we met with the teacher ahead of time and I was a little nervous, you know, like a new parent, that your kid's finally going to school. But the teacher, she looked at us and she said you know, this is not kindergarten, like you guys remember growing up. She said this is going to be more like first grade. She said if your kids can't tie their shoes, please put elastic laces on or Velcro, or put you know something, so that we don't have to bother tying their shoes. She said, if they don't, you know, if they have, we're going to have a five minute snack session, basically. And she said, if that gets in the way of curriculum, it will be a working snack. So they'll have to eat while they do their paperwork. And then she said 15 minutes for recess. And she said, but when it snows, the leaves change color. And I was like, oh gosh, I'm like maybe to do with a pigment in the leaf.
Speaker 2:I was trying to remember from my science classes in high school. You know I didn't really go to school for that, I you know it really helped me reflect on, you know, I'm not an environmentalist, I was. I'm not a naturalist or even a teacher, rather I, you know. So I had to reflect on what is my background and you know what? Does occupational therapy have anything to do with nature programming? And that's when, you know, I really started to pay attention that the main occupation of a child is play, and outdoor play is a particularly meaningful occupation. That, if I asked you guys what was your fondest memories growing up. I bet most of you would say something about playing outdoors. But that particular occupation is really at risk. And so the whole mission behind Timberneck like really over the years, what I've learned is not really a new idea it's really to restore the occupation of outdoor play and to make it as authentic as possible, and that's why it's so therapeutic. You know, it's true, neighborhood play there's a mixture of ages. It's a real play experience. It's a child's choice. It has to be their choice. And once we start controlling and taking away that agency, we really take away the therapeutic components. And that's kind of what we have done with OT. We've gone in the other direction, we've gotten so protocol driven and we've taken away a lot of the therapeutic qualities of what we're doing with children. So it will lay the foundation for a talk.
Speaker 2:But basically what happened after that is I had a friend in marketing and she said I think you should do summer camps because you're probably more likely to get children dropped off for the day. And I was like summer camps, like I was not trained to run summer camps, you know, usually we work one-on-one with children or a small group of children. So I was like I'll do one week of summer camp and she's no, you have to do three to market yourself. And at the time I had no idea what I was getting into, because we're not, again, we're not used to directing a large group of children, and I didn't realize I was starting a business. I went to the town to ask for a sign and they said no, you're starting a business. And so, again, one thing led to the next. They said no, you're starting a business. And so again, one thing led to the next.
Speaker 2:I filled the camps up because it was unique that a therapist was running camps at an affordable price and they were fun, like the ideas were fun. And so after the three weeks of summer camp, I was exhausted. Again, I had no idea how much work it was to have that many children at my house, and so I'm like I'm never, ever doing that again. I was so tired. But what happened was you know, something in my gut told me to let's see what happens.
Speaker 2:And I had four volunteers that helped me from the university, that were occupational therapy students, because I thought what a great mentorship for them to see nature for its therapeutic value. And so those four OT students went back to university and I had 14 volunteers the next year, and so then I had two teachers reach out. One was a wildlife ecologist and a science teacher, and then the other one was she was an elementary teacher and she was the one who said, hey, wouldn't it be fun to do stories in the woods? For instance, we could read the story Three Little Pigs and then we could have Bales, you know, we could reenact the story, she said, at picnic tables. And as a therapist I was like how wouldn't it be neat to bring, you know, real bales of hay out into the woods and you know bricks and logs and you know wolf masks, and so they have the opportunity to build life-size, free little pig homes and, you know, have hours to play that and engage in muscles and senses. And so she was like, yes, and so that really shifted that first summer, when I was by myself with some helpers, I was really much my ideas. It was adult directed activities. They were fun, but it was, you know, very different than the shift of where we had a play experience and the environment was inspiration and then they might not bring home the three little pig homes, but they had an experience designed to create change in the child.
Speaker 2:And so after that point every year I said I'll do it one more year, and this was about 12 years ago, I would say. You said your oldest is 20. Now, yeah, we're still going. And so after that, what happened was I had about three years into it, I released my camps in February, because here in America you have to release your summer camps way ahead of time, and so I was willing to do four weeks of summer camp. I didn't want to do summer camps all summer long. I'm like I'm not supposed to be working here.
Speaker 2:So I released those camps and then what happened is in a minute's time. I had wait lists for all four weeks and I was like I had two parents call crying, which made me feel guilty, and one's hey, my kid got in last year but didn't get in this year. What are you going to do about that? And I was like I don't know. And then I had an occupational therapist reach out and a physical therapist asking if they could replicate the program, because it was really unique for a profession at the time. There was not really that many people out there doing anything with therapy, and so that's when I went and got business mentors, because I had no business experience and they taught me how to license the program Timber Nook, and Timber Nook stands for timber is amongst the trees and nook or cranny is like a hidden place amongst the trees, away from the adult world and the fears of the adult worlds, where kids can be kids.
Speaker 2:And so what happened after that is, I was going to market in New England because that was my plan, which keeps getting shot out of the water, by the way and I wrote an article called why Kids Fidget and it went incredibly viral Again.
Speaker 2:See how I had no control over this. So it got picked up by the Washington Post and then they sold World Rights that Times of India, jerusalem Post picked it up, and then I did a TED Talk for Johnson Johnson on their main stage in front of 100,000 people, and then the book Bounce and Barefoot came about, and that's how Timber Nook went to Australia. It's in the UK, throughout Canada and the United States as well. And then really quick, 2017, there was a school knocking on my door saying we want Timber Nook in the schools and I said, nope, we're not. We're not doing that, that's not the plan. But clearly that was the plan, and so now we're in, we're going to be in 10 schools and we're starting to research them because we've been in schools long enough. It's hard to get in a school because you have to get the entire culture on board. When it gets in, it really does affect the culture, and so that's what we're researching with the University of New Hampshire.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that.
Speaker 2:I can't wait.
Speaker 1:I can't wait till that research comes out and then I'll bring it to my son's school. Yes, yeah, because that's, that is so wonderful, that is such an incredible. So the TED Talk I don't think I realized that the TED Talk was before the book, because that's, I've seen the yeah.
Speaker 2:The first TED Talk.
Speaker 1:OK, okay, okay, there we go I was really pregnant for that one.
Speaker 2:Luckily no one saw that. Just Johnson, Just Johnson and Johnson people.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that is so incredible. And you, like you said you know I'm sure you've heard this in it, but all the things that you say and all of the you know you said I'm not an ecologist, you know they can be. What I love the most about what you do is that you teach those of us who really love to teach kids and love that you know, and I know it's grown for you, I'm sure and those of us who do love and love to answer that question for the five-year-old about why the color change teach us why that's so important and why we're drawn to it, because I think so many nannies are drawn to this. You know outdoor play idea, but don't know why. And you give us the why. So I love that. So you know.
Speaker 1:For those who don't know, you know what really is the basis of, why is it so important. You know we've kind of danced around it. You know that you told those stories a little bit, but really what does outdoor play do for kids developmentally? And you know why is it so important? What have you found through your research?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. There's two kind of major things. One is, when you step outdoors, you have more ability to move in rapid ways, and what's happening is kids are sitting for an average of nine hours a day in a chair is the most recent research I sat in on. And what's interesting about that is it can cause a lot of issues if you're constantly being restricted, right. So certain muscles that shouldn't shorten will shorten, and certain muscles that shouldn't lengthen will lengthen, and so it will affect your posture, but it's going to affect your gait. And the other thing is, you know, if kids are constantly in this upright position, they're not moving in the ways they should. So they really need at least three hours of outdoor playtime a day. They need to spin in circles, they need to go upside down, they need to move in really pretty rapid ways, because inside the inner ear are little hair cells and there's fluid in there, and when you move in vigorous ways, what that does is it develops what we call the vestibular sense, and that sense is key to all the other senses. So if that's underdeveloped which we're finding a lot of kids are walking around with an underdeveloped vestibular sense it can affect what we call sensory integration and that is really like organization of the brain so you can pay attention in the classroom. So just let's break it down just a little bit of what that sense does. Again, that's plenty of movement opportunities. The first thing it does is it helps you to know where your body is in space. So it helps a child to get from point A to point B safely, to get on and off playground equipment effectively and to stay in their seat without falling out.
Speaker 2:So what's happening is some kids are literally falling out of their chairs in school now, and teachers are reporting that kids are starting to run into each other more frequently, and so this is a real red flag if kids are starting to fall from an early age. And so the way we treat that as therapists is we will have them. You remember I talked about the astronaut board is we'll position them on that astronaut board and we spin them in all different ways. So we'll have them lay on their side, we'll have them sit upright, we'll use swings Same thing. We'll put them on the swing in different ways and spin them so that they have a very good sense of body awareness when they navigate their environment. So the same is true with astronauts that's why Mary K Weir worked with NASA is they get in a machine before they go in outer space that moves them in all different directions. So when they go into an anti-gravity environment they can really have a good sense of body awareness as they're navigating those environments.
Speaker 2:So we do the same thing for treatment and what's happening is sometimes I'll see a child spinning in circles, which is really healthy for them, and I'll hear an adult say stop, you're going to get dizzy or get down from that rock, you're going to get hurt. But if we keep them from moving those different ways, the adults actually become the barrier to that neurological development that needs to happen so they can be safer and more capable in their environment. So you know things like swings on the playground, all that stuff you know. I remember spinning on swings when I was a kid, some of those things. I'm hearing that they're banning swings or they're being restricted on how they use swings to keep them safe. But as therapists we really want to work with the educational field to promote being able to move in those different ways so that they can have a very capable neurological system.
Speaker 1:Oh, that drives me nuts to hear that that they're banning, because that's 100%. And you know I'm just going to put a blanket on. I feel like so much of what I've done in my own practice is inspired by your work, so you know everything you're saying. I'm like, yes, I used to run a nature preschool for my backyard, my background, and I used to. You know, when kids were even upset, I'd be like, okay, let's go swing on the swing, go swing on your belly for a little bit. You know, even as like a soothing mechanism, cause that's the swings are my favorite tool. So that is, that's incredible. Can you tell because I know I've heard it about the best, or about the proprioceptive sense too, in the underdeveloped perceptive sense, cause I know that's another one that a lot of you know? We all know about all of the regular five senses and that's crazy that kids are falling out of chairs. But what is the? I know it's proprioceptive, but can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:and what is?
Speaker 1:going on with kids in that sense as well.
Speaker 2:So basically what's happening is OTs will talk a lot about the importance of heavy work, right? So it's like push-pull activities and if you look at outdoor play, kids are naturally getting a lot of heavy work. So if I'm watching kids in Timber Nook, they're dragging like pallets across the woods to build a fort, or they're picking up big logs. Or if they're building a dam, same thing. You're picking up heavy rocks and all of that. What it does is it gives nice senses to the joints and muscles and that helps you to know where your limbs are in relation to each other. It helps with body awareness and also helps with knowing how much force to use when playing games like tag, without hitting too hard or holding a chick, without squeezing the poor chick or the frog. We do this sometimes Kids will catch frogs and they're squeezing the frog too much. So that sense is developed through a lot of heavy work and we're at the point where we're banning tag because kids are getting more and more aggressive.
Speaker 2:But we really want to understand why are so many kids presenting with this regulation issue? And again, the way we treat that is through heavy work and so climbing trees, all of those things used to give you nice sensation to the joints and muscles and helps you know where your limbs are and really shrink to each other and again how much force you use when playing games like tag. So if kids are just going, you know, pretty sedentary, they're not getting a lot of heavy work. You have short 20 minute recess sessions. You're just not getting as much big body work. And then you go home and you're on electronics. You're not, you know, a lot of those electronics. You're not getting resistance to the joints and muscles, so that system is going to be affected if they're not getting as much outdoor playtime. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:What does that look like? You know? I think it's clear. You know, falling out of your chair and not being able to stay upright is like a clear translation to an adult, but in terms of the proprioceptive and like TAG, translating to like adulthood. And if that sense doesn't develop, come from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, so the vestibular we will advocate for older generations to keep moving. So a lot of us, if we're this is not for perception, this is vestibular, but if we're not moving enough, this one reason why we don't tolerate rides when we get older. So I can't do spinny rides anymore. Yeah, Like, a lot of us just aren't moving as much and so we might not go on the spinny rides or the roller coasters anymore. You feel nauseous. And with the really older generation, we want them to keep moving because we want to prevent falls and hip fractures. And so you know, water, aerobics, all of that stuff is really important to keep that system strong. And then the proprioception system I actually don't I'm not sure how that relates to adults, except they probably don't know their own strength, Like you might be. They might be like play fighting with someone, like when you're older, you know, like teasing, and they're like it's just their regulation is off with force.
Speaker 1:Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm sure if they're close talkers.
Speaker 1:I would say. The only other thing I can think of is like having really bad handwriting because not knowing how hard to push on a pencil, and like never developing good handwriting or anything like that. The only one I can think of off the top of my head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think maybe close talkers.
Speaker 1:For sure. I say there was a good question that I wanted to drop in here. You were talking about heavy work. How can you talk about heavy work in terms of how similar it is to the more general concept of gross motor development and like gross motor work?
Speaker 2:So we kind of break it down by the senses, you know. So there's a vestibular perception, the visual tactile smell, all's a vestibular perception, the visual tactile smell, all that stuff, and then gross motor in general relies on having a good vestibular sense and having good proprioceptive sense. But you know, for coordination, knowing where your body is in space as you navigate your environment, that's really key. So I would say body awareness and safety are the biggest things to pay attention to. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Amazing. I'm going to save this question for the end because I think it's a little big. Besides just being fun, like what are the most important ways the outdoor play really helps children develop, like their bodies, minds, emotions, whole body development.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my gosh. So when I do speaking engagements, it's usually at least 90 minutes for the keynote, and then it's like another whole workshop where they do like a turmeric experience, and then we analyze the therapeutic benefits and it's every aspect of the growing child is worked on. So let's say, for instance, children are in giant mud pedals and they're just catching frogs. Often I have an image that shows children that are playing with a little box of sand and there might be a gardening thing going on in the box of sand, and then there's kids in these giant mud pedals catching frogs. And so I say now, both are considered a sensory experience. However, if our true objective is to create change to the senses, which one do you think will be more likely to do that? And so if you really start thinking about it and you take a step back, the audience will often point out so many things. First of all, in the giant mud puddles it's a whole body sensory experience. Right, it's head to toe muddy. I'm sure it's not even under the mud puddle. It probably smells different for different people. There's real frogs in there, and so you have that component that's super meaningful to children. And then there's endless play opportunities. So I might pick up a stick and have a hundred playances, or they're called visual affordances. So I might have like 50 ways to play with that and then you might have 50 different ways. We might have some overlap, but I'm going to inspire you to play with that stick in ways you might have not thought of, and so that leads to more creative play.
Speaker 2:So there's just endless opportunities for play sensory development, motor, cognitive. There's communication with other children like connection in person is huge too. All these kids are going home. I have teenagers now so I know they tell me stories where the kids go home and they're on screens and it's, you know, sometimes the only interaction these teenagers have is they're like on screens with someone else. So from an early age, connecting with other people and having the social skills to stand up for yourself and, you know, set boundaries with other children, to ask for something, to negotiate, to practice getting frustrated with other children, you know, like regulating emotions, all the good stuff happens out there and it's hard to replicate in a classroom setting.
Speaker 1:That's amazing and I can just only imagine how well-rounded your children are as teenagers and young adults, having the experience they did. And you know they did and you know you mentioned so many of the benefits and really talking about them, I think that a lot of nannies understand it. Do you have any? You know nuggets or like even one liners? You know ways that nannies can talk to the parents they work for?
Speaker 1:Because I think that's a big struggle that a lot of nannies have is they know how important it is to get outside with their kids and get messy and do all of this nature play. But they also answer to parents who sometimes don't understand what the developmental and obviously you know I always say you know, throw the experts under the bus first, give them the books, give them the articles, send them these things. But you know, are there any? Just you know real tips that you can give that are easy ways to talk about the benefits and why it really you know why it's okay to be messy and why it's okay to. You know take risks and possibly get hurt and why that's so beneficial for their kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Especially in the face of fear, because I think that's what the nannies are facing is the fear that the parents have because they're not there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's two things. The first one is I want to explain why it's important to get messy from a little like from the sensory standpoint, just so you guys have that nugget. And then I want to talk about why, like how to address it with the parents. So the first one is one thing that we're noticing is a lot of kids don't like that tactile sense like that. That can feel really aversive for some children, like they might not like glue on their fingers, they might want to, not want to get dirty.
Speaker 2:And the way that we have traditionally treated that as therapists is we'll use a brushing protocol. You probably some of you have heard of this. It's like a surgical brush and they brush the child Like and it's really just deep pressure, and what that does is that neurologically overrides that light touch sense that can feel aversive for some children and integrates that sense. And so I was thinking about this again kids playing outdoors and if you think, picture a child on the beach, let's say, and they're building a sandcastle. Well, they're getting that light touch sense, but they're digging in the dirt, which is like that deep pressure at the same time, and because they are able to get deep enough, that helps to actually override that light touch sense and integrate that sense. It's the same with climbing trees Like that sap might feel gross but because you're getting deep pressure while you're getting that light touch sense, that helps to integrate that light touch sense. You know what's insane is.
Speaker 1:So just a little bit of background. I'm autistic and I actually really don't like sand. I like the light touch of sand, but week of vacation at the Atlantic ocean in South Carolina and it's like that denser sand that you can build really nice sandcastles. I love to go dig in the sand and build sandcastles and it doesn't bother me when I'm doing that and I've never thought about that. But you just said that and that makes sense because the deep touch is like overpowering the itchiness of the sand for me. So that's incredible and, yeah, that's so real.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so if you compare that again to a little box of sand, the problem with that is you can't get deep enough right, so you're just getting that tactile sensation but you're not creating actual change to the senses.
Speaker 2:So again, providing outdoor play opportunities that actually create change to the senses is key, and so that's one thing, that connecting the dots for educators and for parents is really eye-opening, because once you know you're like oh, this is, I'm not, you know it's hard to go back. The other one is, as a health care professional, I was always taught in my ethics classes to do no harm, and we're at the point where actually causing harm to children by restricting them so much and taking away enough outdoor playtime it is affecting development in pretty extreme ways. So I always talk to parents like we can't keep doing what we're doing. They really need this more than anything else. You know well there's other things that I report to, but you know outdoor play is really critical to development and so I think just laying it out there of how things like development is changing is also really eye-opening to parents. So we do a lot of connecting the dots here at Timber Nook for different communication tools to really educate people on the importance.
Speaker 1:I love that. So, yeah, this is what your child's doing and this is what it's doing for them, and connecting those dots that is a great tip. I love that. I'm going to shift a little bit and I'm going to use first the questions that were dropped in the chat before we transition into ways that nannies can encourage more outdoor exploration in city spaces, because a couple people brought up and I want to ask first about how Timber Nook interacts Does Timber Nook work in any urban areas? And the questions asked, both schools that don't have access to nature how do you work with that? How are school settings handling considerations that have led to safe, as meaning indoors behind a locked door and needing to outdoor play in schools, and so both that safety issue I don't know if you've come up across it at all with Timber Nook in terms of like, how do we make safe outside and just how do we, you know, in terms of access to the outdoor in those urban areas?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so all right, I'm going to start with the first question, as far as Timber Nook. Working with urban settings like the Timber Nook, like timber, like it has to be within nature. So we do have, we do want to partner with schools that are from cities, like right now we have kids that drive an hour and they do field trips at Timber Nook, but we feel like there's got to be property closer and it's just really knocking on the right doors and trying to find partnerships. Really, we're motivated to try to figure out because I feel like they need it more than anyone and when they do come for a field trip, they appear to be very play deprived. It's like a very. I don't know how to explain their play, but there's a sense of urgency about it. They know they have a limited time. It's like a very. I don't know how to explain their play, but there's a sense of urgency about it. They know they have a limited time. It makes me want to cry. It's like they have three hours and they're going to make the best of it, but it's very urgent, and so it's very clear that these children need more opportunities for something like Timber Nook.
Speaker 2:There are other programs that are designed in a city, but I still feel like it's different than when you're in the woods and you're building societies in their own worlds, and so, again, increasing access, working with partnerships, is really important. But there are also like adventure playgrounds, which are probably the closest you can get to Timberknock. There's no woods but they at least have loose parts play. It's a completely different program but they do have some overlap where the adults do step back and allow for child-directed play opportunities.
Speaker 2:As far as safety goes, I'm not quite sure I understand the question, but we have our own safety protocols that we have to go through. We are a licensed program so different organizations and schools will adopt TimberNet programming and have their own safety protocols that they follow. We're just a specific licensed program, so different organizations and schools will adopt TimberNet programming and have their own safety protocols that they follow. We're just a specific license program and we mandate training to stay really strong and they do the HIST, like hazards versus age, like appropriate risk taking, and then we train them on what's reasonable risk taking, what is not reasonable risk taking out there, and when to go and when not to go in, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:So absolutely, yeah, I feel like you almost have a little bit more awareness when you're out and about because you don't have the false sense of security of the indoors and, yeah, you're more aware of your surroundings. So thank you so much for that. Is there any you know just in terms of how nannies who might live inside obviously getting out to where you know, getting out into woods, but you know if it's not in the woods but just when you can get those little pockets of outside time or little pockets? Are there any ways that nannies can encourage kind of that free outdoor play when they live in a more urban setting?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So if you want to read even more, the book does go into detail and ideas and stuff. But just to give you a sample, you can use different adult type materials and bring it outdoors and set up a little bit of an invitation to play kind of thing. If you have puddles, like I love puddles because you can place something like kitchenware right near the puddle and right away what you're doing is you're using what we call shaped affordance theory, so you're using the mud puddle right next to kitchenware and they start experimenting with those two objects together.
Speaker 2:The other thing is like older children or even little children. You know, fort building is kind of a classic pastime. You know again, these are a little bit older. But you know having materials like old curtains, you know you can get from garage sales or Goodwill lumber pallets, we use milk crates, bricks, but so every turmeric site has a Home Depot. So it's this little Home Depot area where they can pull materials because they're constantly building. We have our own actual curriculum that comes out too. So there's a staging area that's separate from the Home Depot, but it's almost like your preschool should have building blocks.
Speaker 2:Every Timberlake site has building materials. So having access to things where they can build is really key. And then the other thing is the other children are part of the environment, so having mixed ages or having multiple children actually to me makes life easier. They inspire each other to play in different ways and encouraging parents to do something similar Don't just do a play date. Parents are getting really busy and overscheduling their kids that they're not prioritizing setting up time to have kids over for the entire day and so really encouraging them to get outdoors, invite kids over for the entire day, is really important for socialization and there's a lot of lonely kids.
Speaker 1:It's really sad, I think the thing that you just like really didn't say right, there was set up a structured game and get up this exact activity and to do that, you know, like I think, even just play date, scared nanny sometimes, and there are reasons to besides this uh, parrots, do you know? But you don't have to have all these activities and you know, pinterest, perfect play date. That's not a play date. Just giving them the materials and the environment to make their own fun is all you got to do. That's really what's better for them. That's what I heard right there, so I'm going to always remember that as a mom too. So amazing.
Speaker 1:There was another question that I wanted to ask, and you mentioned your girls are teenagers now and they're coming back with their stories, and so I think this is one that you know as kids grow and they are teenagers. And then this question was about caregivers and adults as well, but then also teenagers, because teenagers. How can we make outdoor play more enjoyable and accessible for adults caregivers who are trying to get outside with their kids, or the teenagers who are maybe resistant to it, so that way they can support them and keep them safe and continue to get outside throughout as they grow? Not necessarily how do we get the kids outside, but how do we get outside as adults and make that fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've been having many requests over the years to do adult experiences and teen experiences because it's like permission to play like that and it's hard to get that many people in the place with that kind of materials. So I think that, yes, they can benefit from it as much as the adults. We're actually going to do a teen experience this summer where it's a glow-in-the-dark like nighttime warrior camp where they have, you know, a battle and stuff out there and they're super excited about it. My daughter's 20 and she's already talking about it, whose team they're going to be on and how they're going to steal from the other group when they're not looking. But I do think that we need to remember that teens especially need to play and adults.
Speaker 2:I'm very concerned for our teenagers because of some of the stories I've been hearing and having girls that are that age and the socialization pieces are really fascinating to me. They're just not able to like talk to people in person. It's funny. My girls went to private school and then they went to public school when they went to high school and it was like night and day. They're both very friendly and would say hi to people and people are like you know, it's just very interesting. They think you know what's wrong with you or they'll pull out their phone so they don't have to look at you in the face.
Speaker 2:So I think you know giving them opportunities for this kind of play. It's just so important from a young age. We have gone into some schools where the young kids they get Timber Nook all the way up through and you can. It shows, you can see the difference in those kids that get play from a young age to those that didn't have it and they just struggle. They like don't know what to do with themselves, they're uncomfortable. So I think the answer I'm really getting at is those that you can do this early with and what you guys really matter is like getting them to play and being huge advocates for play from a young age. It really makes a world of difference.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, that is so amazing. So, moving on to do you have any favorite stories that you can share that really just exemplify how outdoor play has changed a child development, whether it's been one of those kids that you got to see grow up, go through the program. You know any just like story that really drives home the power of outdoor play and how it can change a child's development?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this story is actually about the importance of adults stepping back, which is actually the hardest piece and probably one of the most important to Timbernaut. We're so used to being so close to the kids and what we learned over the years is if we're too close to kids let's say, building a fort the kids will start turning to the adults for constant reassurance. Is this okay, or can you do this for me? Or there's more tattling going on? But we learned that when we really step back and we actually have a toddler program where adults come with their toddlers and we also try to pull them back a little bit you can't hide on toddlers, but we do try to reduce adult presence out there, because the kids really need to learn to initiate their own play ideas. They're so used to being entertained and everything's done for them, and so there was this one time where, for me, it was a little hard to watch, but it was a really powerful reminder on the importance of stepping back, and this was, I think the kids were six or seven. It was a field trip and they were building a teepee and there was a group of girls and all I heard was a boy went up to them and said you need to let me play. And right away we were training too. So when you're training you want things to go nice. But something told me to let's just see what happens. And the little boy had scissors. So we're all like, oh my gosh, what's going to happen? So the girls ended up forming a chain with their hands and defending their fort and saying, no, we won't. And so the boy he cut a piece of their twine and they had gems in their fort and so he took their gems and he took off running. And so what happened was the girls ended up chasing him in the woods over and over again, like they must have done three or four laps around the entire woods, and one of the providers was like, okay, well, something is bound to happen. And so, sure enough, he got tired and he was frustrated. So he's like, fine, just take the gems. And gave it back to them.
Speaker 2:The girls went back to their fort, redecorated their teepee and their singing, because they were triumphant. They got their gems back and the boy was interesting as he went over to a tree and he crossed his arms and he was sulking, was upset. One of the little girls left the fort after a couple minutes and went down and sat right beside him and we, out of respect, we again give them space, so we couldn't hear what they were saying, but we could hear the noise level. And so she starts calmly talking to him and then right away he's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and so she puts her hand up like talk to the hand type thing, and so then he calms down for a second, but then he yells again, and so she puts her hand up like talk to the hand type thing, and so then he calms down for a second, but then he yells again, and so she, again she does the hand thing gesture, and so what was interesting is his voice comes down and he starts calmly talking to her, and then all we saw is she waves him on to play, and so that little boy was included.
Speaker 2:For the rest of the week it was no longer an issue. Now. If we had gone in right from the beginning and said you need to let him play, what opportunities do you think they would have missed out on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they probably wouldn't have played. Yeah, he probably wouldn't have ever really wanted to play and really belonged, and that's that is so incredible, and yeah right.
Speaker 2:So, like he, they solved their own problem Right. So they learned conflict resolution through play, which is the best way to practice those skills. And you know, like he probably learned, maybe yelling isn't the best way to be included. You know, ok, sometimes you have to practice, you have to test things out, test out different theories of what works, what doesn't. He was allowed to get included. You know, okay, sometimes you have to practice, you have to test things out, test out different theories of what works, what doesn't. He was allowed to get upset. No one was telling him to be quiet, like he got frustrated.
Speaker 2:The girls learned to defend their, set boundaries with them. They defended their fort. That was for my girls growing up. I was so like thankful that they were able to set boundaries with people growing up. And then she practiced like empathy, like something you have to just experience. She practiced communication skills with them, patience, like she waited till he calmed down and then he was authentically included and so it was no longer an issue. He could have resented them and they could have resented him if we had told, forced it and made it not a choice. And so, because they decided and they worked it out themselves, it was no longer an issue. So I often think like how often do we do that? How often do we step in too soon and we, we do it for them and they don't learn those basic communication problem solving skills that are best done through play.
Speaker 1:that, yeah even I was thinking you know, he wore himself out too. He probably was easier to talk to after he wasn't so tired too. Yeah, exactly, that is so incredible. Well, besides that moment because I feel like that one could have been the answer to this too what is the most rewarding part of seeing children thrive and spending time in outdoors throughout your career?
Speaker 2:rewarding part of seeing children thrive and spending time in outdoors throughout your career. Yeah, I think it's super fun to watch the older kids like that have done Timber for so long and they take play to a whole different level. They create societies and their own worlds out there. There was one time where I heard a horn blow and like kids came running from all over the different parts of the woods and this girl had a feathered mask and she's your top spy, top commander and started pointing these hierarchies. And this girl had a feathered mask and she's your top spy, top commander and started pointing these hierarchies and they were basically going to war. It was like really they were trying to capture the flag. Basically they were trying to steal gems from each other.
Speaker 2:But it's really fun to watch because those are the memories that my girls remember growing up of the best memories growing up and they learned you know confidence and you know they know who they are. They don't struggle with any sense of who am I as a person and just really friendly, nice people but very courageous. I think being able to play that way and overcoming fears in a playful way made them more adventurous. Like they dirt bike now, my daughter played hockey with all boys for a long time and then played in like college and yeah. So it's neat to see them later on go off for snowmobiling for 50 miles by themselves and be confident, capable, wholesome adventurers, and they stay out of trouble, which is really nice. So it's like giving them the right kind of risk taking.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so you've got the case studies that it works now, yeah, I love it. Well, before we let you go, you know, obviously, Barefoot and Balanced. If you don't have, if you haven't read it yet, I've got somebody. There we go. If you have not read Barefoot and Balanced yet, please do I actually.
Speaker 1:I was looking for my copy before we started and then I realized that I've lent it out to some. Well, mine's lent out to a friend right now. So I'm like, oh, I guess I need to get a few more copies to always make sure I've got one in backup, because mine is all marked up and well loved. It is an absolutely incredible book. We'll make sure that the link is in the show notes. I know you mentioned like you're getting in with schools and looking for those partnerships, so I just wanted to ask if there is any nannies here who see a need in their community, how do they get in touch with Timber Nook, get you to come to their nanny kid's school, or if they know of a plot of land in an urban area that you know Timber Nook could come to, possibly, how do they connect with you and your organization to help spread the goodness of nature play?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, if you go on our website, you can see that we do certify schools to do Timber Nook and it's a specific kind of training, and then we also do Timber Nook Providership, where you know it's an individual organization that wants to run community programming, like homeschool programming, summer camps, night experiences, but like anything that's for the community toddler programming. So they can check that out and just reach out to us with questions as well.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Yes, I know nannies have asked me how to start their own nature, so I'm like go get Timber Nook certified. So if you are one of those who have dreamed of it, definitely check it out. Well, it was so lovely to have you here, angela. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you everybody.
