Adventure Nannies On Air
The team behind Adventure Nannies is joined by industry experts and dear friends to share anecdotes and resources for nannies, childcare providers, and families. Adventure Nannies is a nationwide agency that helps humans find the support and tools they need to build their dream lives. They have been featured in the New York Times, Forbes, Fortune, and Marie Claire and are well-known in the industry as being progressive innovators and advocates.
For more, visit adventurenannies.com or email marketing@adventurenannies.com to learn how to become a guest on the show.
Adventure Nannies On Air
Summit Session: No Such Thing As Bad Weather with Linda McGurk
Listen to our Summit Session with Linda Åkeson McGurk, acclaimed journalist, parenting expert, and author of There's No Such Thing As Bad Weather.
In this inspiring conversation, Linda dives into how her Scandinavian upbringing shaped her nature-forward parenting philosophy. Discover why a little rain, snow, or mud shouldn't keep children indoors, and how embracing outdoor play in all seasons boosts emotional regulation, physical development, and resilience. Learn how to foster confidence and connection in children by simply stepping outside.
This session covers:
- The benefits of outdoor play in all weather conditions.
- Strategies to shift from "weather worrier" to "weather warrior."
- Tools for nannies and caregivers to incorporate nature-based routines year-round.
- The cultural concept of friluftsliv (open-air life) and how to adapt it to your daily nannying practice.
Whether you're a parent, educator, or nanny looking to brave the elements and bring more joy and freedom into your work, this replay offers practical tips and valuable mindset shifts from a leading voice in outdoor parenting.
Connect with Linda: https://rainorshinemamma.com/
Please note: Adventure Nannies is not a medical or child development expert. This session provides educational insights based on Linda McGurk’s experiences and expertise, designed to support your learning and spark ideas you can explore further in your own childcare practice.
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Welcome to Adventure Nannies On Air. Today's episode was recorded live during one of our Summit Sessions as a part of our free ongoing educational webinar series to support nannies and professional child care providers to elevate their careers and enhance their skills. If you like what you hear, you can catch the full episode on our YouTube channel or register for our next Summit Session at adventurenanniescom slash summit dash sessions. Welcome to today's Summit Session. I'm so excited to be here. My name is Regan Fulton, I'm the Marketing Director for Adventure Nannies and today we have the incredible Linda Merker with us. Linda is one of my favorite authors and an advocate for outdoor play. She's written two books about parenting and outdoor living no such thing as bad weather and open air life which you see my copy here, with all sticky notes and tabs, is a life manual that everyone should have. Drawing from both researchers and her own experiences. She's here to share her insights on how we can all encourage love for nature in the outdoors and for the children. Therefore, so welcome Linda. It's so wonderful to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm honored to be here and obviously familiar with Adventure Nannies the organization, since I've just blurred the book and it was lots of fun to read everybody's stories and that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. We wanted to have Linda be able to be one of our pre-readers and give us a for the back of our book, and we've also had the pleasure of having her as a sponsor for Nanny Camp. We got to give out copies of her book to our Nanny Camp attendees Just so excited to have her here today to teach all of you. So just a couple of housekeeping notes before we get started is this is being recorded. It will be available as a podcast If you have to pop out at any point, if you miss the end or if you won't learn so much that you want to share with your friends.
Speaker 1:It'll be available both on YouTube and wherever you listen to podcasts and, with that being the case, just make sure you please keep yourself muted. I'll try to keep an eye on it too, but if you can keep yourself muted, that way we can get a clear recording of Linda. And if you have any questions, pop them in the chat. I'll be monitoring the chat and at the end we'll circle back and I'll ask Linda all those awesome questions. So let's get started. Linda, to just get us started, tell us a little bit more about your journey, how you got here and what led you to be passionate about outdoor play and I'm going to let you say it, because I butcher it every time I say it the F word free enough, sleep, open air life yes.
Speaker 2:So I want to start by saying I'm an accidental author. I am a journalist and a writer. Am a journalist and a writer. I grew up in Sweden in a very outdoorsy culture but because it was so ingrained in our culture to be outside from infancy, babies nap outside at daycare and preschool. Children play outdoors most of the day at forest school and also in regular preschools, and we also spend a lot of time outdoors with friends and family, just in our free time, and I never thought of our family as particularly outdoorsy, even though my parents would take me hiking and camping in the summertime and sledding and skiing and ice skating in the wintertime. That's just what everybody did, so we weren't special that way. And then when I was in my 20s, I moved to the US and I had my children there. I have two daughters and of course I noticed when I moved there.
Speaker 2:We lived in Indiana. I lived there for 15 years and I noticed that it was a little different. The culture was different and people didn't seem to go outside as much. They didn't seem to think that was a thing Like I had grown up thinking that, or I was always told fresh air is good for you, and we go outside every day. There's no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes. And in Indiana it seemed like people were hibernating, especially during the cold season.
Speaker 2:So when I had my first daughter and I took her out on the stroller in the wintertime, I got some reactions from people in the community. Some people thought I was brave for being out there in the cold temperatures, and others thought I was reckless because they thought it was dangerous. And then a few even took pity on me and offered me rides. They thought my car had broken down and were being, of course, midwestern nice.
Speaker 2:So this sort of culture clash made me realize that if I wanted my daughter to have a childhood anything like my own, I had to actively try and immerse her in the culture that I grew up in. So that's how it started. So I went from being a freelance writer working on stories about corn and soybean prices and the harvest to thinking about writing a book about the Scandinavian culture and, above all, like how the place of nature in childhood, because having a nature connection is really considered essential in Swedish and Scandinavian parenting and culture. So that's how I ended up writing my first book and then that kind of took off, and then my second book came out five years later and then, actually in 2018, I moved back to Sweden, so that's where I live now, but, as I said, I've lived in the US for 15 years, so I have one foot in each culture.
Speaker 1:So it's an accidental passion. I love it. And so, for those who are unfamiliar with what Fridhjuls sliv means and what that Nordic philosophy like, what are the basic tenets, what are the core values of that philosophy that was especially those that were shocking, that weren't a part of the United States culture when you got here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's a little different from just outdoor recreation. So this is very focused on creating a relationship with nature and to connect with nature in everyday life. It's also non-competitive and non-motorized. Essentially, 80% of the time it's just as simple as going for a walk in your neighborhood, but there's a lot of emphasis on that sort of daily act of getting outside, daily act of getting outside. But it also encompasses traditional outdoor activities like foraging, kayaking, hiking, camping, cross-country skiing, all those. But we wouldn't consider a 5K part of Freelisting because it's a competition non-competitive and non-motorized and simple activities. The focus is really on finding joy in nature. You shouldn't need a big agenda and in everyday life it's usually just about getting outside and then on the weekends or on your vacation then you probably try and get farther out of the city. It might go camping and hiking and so on, but the important part is to really try and live in a way where nature is always part of the everyday life.
Speaker 1:I love it and I think that's probably one of the hardest parts for Americans to adapt to and honestly, like when I first read Open Air Life, one of the most eye opening was is that non-competitive, the not involving competition? Because I feel like even fishing is a competition. People turn foraging into a competition. Everything gets so much gets turned into competition. So I love that aspect of just being for the enjoyment and for the relationship with nature and building it and the emphasis on that.
Speaker 1:That's some of my favorite parts of fruitless leaf. So let's dive into the benefits a little bit. And thankfully we had the most wonderful pairing of summit sessions in the past couple of weeks because we just got to have Angela Hanscom of Barefoot and Balanced a few weeks ago and so she talked a lot about the kind of scientific OT side. So I'm excited to dive in on your end because you have so much more practical how to get out there skills so we learned about why we need to get out there. So I do want to touch on a little bit of what are the most significant ways that outdoor play and really outdoor living in this freelance sleep culture are benefits to our children in their physical, mental, emotional health as they develop.
Speaker 2:And I got to say I love Angela as well and she's done so much. Her work has really done a lot for the children and nature movement and her perspective as an occupational therapist has been really valuable, I think, and of course she has more of that expertise. But what I can say from my perspective is that outdoor play is really the foundation for children's healthy development, because children, they, have evolved through outdoor play over millennia. That's how they learn about themselves, it's how they learn about their bodies and how to be in the world, and what we're seeing today is that children are in worse shape and physically weaker than they were just a generation ago, and this will affect them as they get older. And so that's why I think outdoor play if you get that into their lives early, then you can establish those healthy habits early on.
Speaker 2:We know there is a link between their health today and the sedentary indoor lives that they're leading today. For example, we also have a myopia epidemic and the myopia being nearsightedness that's due to children not being exposed to enough daylight. The UK we've even seen cases of rickets coming back and that's a disease that we thought belonged in the Victorian era. So I think outdoor play really is the answer to a lot of these things, and if we look at what happens when children go outside, even if we assume that they're not moving at all, if they're just being in nature so what happens in our bodies is just that being exposed to the daylight helps normal eye development for one, as I mentioned, but it also helps regulate our sleep and wake cycles, our circadian rhythms, because all the cells in our bodies, they run on these 24-hour schedules called circadian rhythm. So the daylight sort of tells our bodies when it's time to be alert and when it's time to go to sleep. And especially being outdoors in the morning can really help children sleep better at night and waking more rested too. And another thing that happens is that our cortisol levels go down, which cortisol being a stress hormone. That means that the child will become more relaxed, but at the same time the focus increases Angela talks a lot about this too that the child is relaxed but still in an alert state, and that's like really optimal for learning.
Speaker 2:There's also vitamin D, which of course you know. The sun raised from the sun help our bodies produce vitamin D, which is key to our immune system and bone development. Our mood improves, we're outdoors and there's a reduced risk of anxiety and depression, which is so common especially in older children today. And then if we add the physical activity to this, then of course the benefits increase exponentially. Kids are naturally more active outdoors than indoors, and the more natural the area, the better.
Speaker 2:In the forest there are a lot of natural challenges for them to really move their body on and practice these basic motor skills like jumping, rolling, climbing, running and spinning in circles, which is really important for their physical development as well. They develop stronger muscles and bones. But also, if we think about the cognitive development, if we think of tree climbing, for example, it teaches kids to practice their executive function. It teaches kids to practice their executive function. Climbing a tree takes a lot of planning. Executive function that's the ability to set goals and plan your way to get there.
Speaker 2:And when you're outdoors and playing there's just full of of their time today and see other kids face to face, and it's just a different type of play than just gaming. It really encourages imagination, creativity. Young children have this amazing ability to create something to do out of nothing, but that run the risk of losing that ability. And then you have a kid who's constantly just getting bored to tears and does not know how to act or what to do with themselves when they're outdoors. I've seen this firsthand many times. So I think before we ever put a device in a child's hands, sure that they do have that connection with nature and the ability to make their own fun outdoors. Absolutely, I love that.
Speaker 1:Now I know I hear excuses a lot for why you can't get kids outside. A lot of people think of outdoor play as just a fair weather activity, but one of your biggest works in your first book is all about getting outside in all weather. So what benefits do children get specifically from being outdoors in different weather rain, wind, snow? Obviously there's the how you get outside like that too, but why is it important to get outside in those different types of weather?
Speaker 2:Of course, depending on where you grow up, but to me, growing up in Sweden, it's always been. Once you realize all the benefits of outdoor play, then you got to ask yourself do I want to limit all those benefits that come out of outdoor play to just the fair weather days when it's 72 degrees and sunny, which that's not most of the time in Sweden and not in a lot of other places either. The weather is not always going to be ideal. I just wouldn't want to limit my kids' time outdoors because of that. They would just be hibernating half the year. And I also think there's and this may be more anecdotal, but what I've seen from my observations is that I think there's something to braving the weather and gaining resilience, from actually realizing that you're not going to melt just because it's raining outdoors. You can handle it. If you just dress for the weather and you can, you'll be fine. You're not going to freeze to death just because it's cold outdoors. You're not going to get sick. That's just old urban legends, and I think it makes kids grow when they see that they can, that the weather is not perfect but they can find a way to be comfortable and they can find things to do and they can still have a good time. And honestly, I think a lot of time the resistance comes more from the adult, I think, especially when it comes to younger children, because I feel like younger children usually don't have that weather bias. They're very good at seeing the different affordances or opportunities in different kinds of weather.
Speaker 2:It's usually those adults that tend to see the problems. It's snowing outdoors, so we're thinking, oh now my commute is going to take longer or the roads are going to be slick and I'm going to have to shovel the driveway and kids just want to get out there and make snow angels or try and catch snowflakes with their tongues. Same with rain. We think of the kids getting wet and they're going to track in mud and it takes more effort to be out in the rain because you got to have more gear. And the kids they want to jump in the puddles and they want to make Play-Doh out of mud. They don't see the problems like we do. They see the opportunities. And I think we need to be more like kids in that regard.
Speaker 2:And that's where this whole thing about dressing for the weather comes in, because there's just so much you can do outdoors and also to have these different sensory experiences. If you're only outside, it's sunny, you're going to know what that feels like, but the child will not get a chance to try their hand digging canals in the mud. And there are a lot of kids with sensory issues today and I think a lot of that could be prevented if you get them used to just experiencing these different weather conditions from an early age and also to experience nature and the changes in nature firsthand. Yeah, you might be able to see the leaves changing through a window, but it's not the same thing as actually being out there and also smelling those leaves and feeling them in your hands, or throwing them and raking a pile of leaves and jumping in them. That's something completely different from just seeing it through a window. So, to sum it up, I think you're missing out on a lot. Jumping in them, that's something completely different from just seeing it through a window.
Speaker 1:So, to sum it up, I think you're missing out on a lot if you just choose to go outside when the weather is perfect. I so agree. Yeah, we have to learn to deal with discomfort sometimes. I think that's so important and mentioned the adult's objections. And obviously there's the ones that like, if you're the caregiver caring for the child, like not wanting to put the gear on them but assuming that as the nanny you're past, that you're going to put in the effort to put in in the work. What are some objections that maybe parents raise or in like ways to overcome them? I know you mentioned a little bit like that you could get sick outside in the cold. What are some of those common objections that people have to getting kids outside that just aren't true or that you just have? You have great answers for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think what I mentioned earlier, like kids getting dirty, is not super popular with a lot of parents. I think the weather is another big barrier. I also think, although maybe to a lesser extent, there are some parents who feel like it's maybe a little bit a waste of time or they don't see the value in play. I think, and I hope, that's becoming less common, but I do know that it exists still this belief that any activity that's not planned and organized by an adult or some sort of stated educational value is not valuable to the child. I think the only way to approach this is through education, but do it in a maybe a gently nudging way. You can try and debunk those urban legends by just saying yeah, I know, my mom always said that I would catch a cold if I was outside in the cold. That's actually not. That's how it works. And the same with going out without a hat on. That's not going to give you a cold either.
Speaker 2:Casually leave your books laying on the couch and just point them to any sort of resources that you can think of, like blogs or YouTube videos, talks or whatever the caregiver's preferred media or social media is. There's a lot of good content out there that addresses this stuff. But yeah, of course, my book is very comprehensive in this area, I think, trying to also highlight all the benefits, because all parents want the best for their kids, right? They want to do the right thing. I think there's just a lot of misinformation. So if you can just get that information out there, I think people will be receptive to that. And also, if a kid's getting dirty is a problem, then just make sure that they have the right gear and you can always rinse them off before bringing them inside.
Speaker 1:I had a Swedish rain cloth that I would always wipe down that I got from outdoors Right right. Super absorbent, always wiped them down. And then I kept a thing of wet ones by the door at one of my family's house. We wiped down feet when we came inside. That's just what we did, right Big on feet. So yeah, we were going to go get dirty, but then we wiped down feet before we came inside.
Speaker 2:Yep, I've also seen this great hack. I haven't used it myself, but I've seen this hack online where people who don't have a mudroom how they use an Ikea bag. Have you seen that one? So they have the kids step into an empty Ikea bag, these big blue ones, oh yeah, they just strip down all their outdoor clothes into the bag and then they just, yeah, bring that inside. I like that too. That's amazing. You don't have to see it. You don't have to see the mat and the thing is mud. It's also, I think, a misunderstanding that you don't have to wash these outdoor clothes every time. You can just let the mud dry and then it comes off really easy. You can just brush it off real easily. Otherwise you'd be stuck doing laundry 24-7. And that's not really the idea. It's going to get dirty again the next time they go out. Why bother?
Speaker 1:That's why we keep our rain gear in the garage. And yeah, exactly, just amazing. So what are some simple and practical strategies that parents and caregivers? We just talked about a couple of them of the how to get out of the outside, I guess, but what are some strategies to incorporate more outdoor time into children's daily routine?
Speaker 2:I think one of the most important things that we can do to encourage outdoor play is to show children that being outside is important and to feel joy when we're out there with them and exploring nature together. And I think we should own the weather, dress for the rain and the snow, because we all know if a child is wet or cold, they're not going to want to stay out for very long. I also always recommend that people use the nearby nature, whether that's a backyard or a local park. That just depends on where you live. Maybe there are some woods at the end of the street. It doesn't have to be a park either. It just depends a little bit on what your situation is like where you live or where the child lives that you care for. You don't have to plan anything big, but maybe just pack a picnic or just sit and watch the birds.
Speaker 2:My advice is always to make it easy. You don't need to have a big agenda with this. Just prioritize it and take the time. Make it a part of your daily rhythm, and each family has their own rhythm. So whether that time is in the morning, after breakfast, in the middle of the day or after dinner, going for an after dinner walk. That can vary and maybe it will vary from day to day too.
Speaker 2:Do try to get in the habit of going outside every day. So just work it into your regular life instead of thinking of it as an extra. You can also try and just work it into the daily routines of life. For example, if you're walking a child to school instead of driving there, if you can, or ride a bike Once again, that just really depends a little bit on your situation. Or for an older child who's got homework, can you sit outside and do the homework? There's a lot of things that we can do to just get that little time in, or just stop by the park on your way home from daycare or from school or preschool, from daycare or from school or preschool. So, yeah, I think the trick really is to own the weather, use nearby nature and take the time, and especially if you think that you're too busy to do it, then you definitely need it the most Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Do you have any? You mentioned a little bit like the nearby nature and what you have in your community. Do you have any tips for folks who live in cities who don't have as much access to nearby nature, what different places they can look for access or things they can do to incorporate what access they do have into their daily lives?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always say start where you are, use what you have and do what you can. I think I'm paraphrasing it. It's an athlete that said that, but I think it really applies to outdoor play too. I think most cities would have some sort of local park, but even in some apartments, blocks, there will be like a small grassy area or some trees. You can see trees almost anywhere. You can spot birds anywhere. I think the key really is to try and find nature where you are and maybe even redefine how we frame nature, because I think when we say nature, I think a lot of us think of wilderness, we think of mountains and the deep forests and the ocean, and we don't think of nature as being in the city. But when you think about it just being outdoors and feeling the wind on your face that wind is part of nature too. So but having said that, I also think it doesn't take a whole lot to make an area inviting to outdoor play.
Speaker 2:I sometimes tell the story of the community where I lived in Indiana. There was this apartment complex. There was a small area outside, like this grassy patch, with just a small stand of trees, and you'd never see anybody out there. The place would be deserted. I'm assuming it was the landlord or maybe somebody who lived there, but somebody put out a couple of picnic tables. Once there were a couple of picnic tables there, people actually started sitting there and hanging out and some people were all of a sudden eating lunch there. Then I started seeing some kids on bikes some younger, because now their caregiver actually had somewhere to sit so they could watch over the child while they were riding their bikes. And so I think with just small changes you can really see some great ripple effects.
Speaker 2:And if your community doesn't have a lot of access to green spaces, then see what you can do. Is there anything you can do to help improve that access in your community? It can involve working with private landowners. Like I said earlier, a lot of times there will be a small wooded area or something. Maybe it's privately owned. If you can get permission, some landowners are more willing than others to allow people to go on their property. Or work with your city council to improve access to parks. There are a lot of grants out there. I was involved in my community in Indiana to restore our playground many years ago and it was a great thing for the community.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I love it. And then I know we talked about a couple of different ways to get outside or tools. We have a great question in the chat that kind of goes along these lines For places that are really hot. I know you talk a lot of cold, yeah, places that are really hot, places above 100 degrees and UVA of higher Las Vegas summers, specifically, is being asked about.
Speaker 1:Do you have any tips? Obviously, layers off is harder and I know I've got extra when you're done, if you don't mention it yourself. But what tips do you have for that hot weather?
Speaker 2:Yeah, obviously that is a whole different animal. It's almost like you have to think the opposite of a cold weather climate. So obviously in that climate, the summer is going to be the time of the year when you spend less time outside. Because even here in Sweden, even though we go outside every day, usually we spend a lot more time outdoors in the summertime, just because it's easier and more comfortable.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't stress over not being able to stay out for hours on end in 100 degree weather. Obviously, if you're out in those temperatures, you really have to think about hydration and preferably access to water too. Can the child be? Do you have access to water? They can sit and splash in, for example.
Speaker 2:I know this is a desert climate, so I'm not sure whether that's an option everywhere. But other than that, general advice is still to try and avoid the hottest times of the day and try to get out early in the morning. I know it's hot there too in the morning, but that's at least going to give you a little reprieve, or later in the evening, maybe, even maybe you can even sleep outside, like on the patio, if you have one, if you're a live-in nanny, I'm trying to think that's maybe more like what you would do as a parent, like you would sleep outdoors, but if you're a live-in nanny and the family would let you, looking at the stars, that's also a way to connect with nature and something that's greater than ourselves and another. Yeah. So other than that, just stay hydrated. You can also soak a shirt and put on to help the child keep cool as well.
Speaker 1:I know that it might not be super helpful in desert, but one thing that I always try to do is don't underestimate, if you have forests nearby, how helpful a dense shade of a forest can be when we get the real hot the shade really going out into the forest can be a difference of 10 to 15 degrees at least.
Speaker 1:It gets real hot in the peak of summer. So if you do have that access, that's my other tip for hot weather yes, definitely Good one. So for the topic of risky play so much comes out when we get outside. Obviously we just talked a little about the risk of heat and stuff like that. But obviously risky play can be a little bit different. Letting kids climb on things, we know the benefits. But how do we as parents and caregivers overcome anxieties around that and help to encourage, because we know it is developmentally appropriate and that helps the children develop? We talked about that. But how do we get past that kind of fear and let the kids enjoy it and take those risks?
Speaker 2:Yeah, once again. I think definitely encouragement and education can help parents understand that this fear is not rational. It's understandable but it's not rational. Just look at how many kids get injured playing organized sports. My son get injured playing organized sports. My kids do get hurt, but they can just as well get hurt falling off the couch at home. The most serious injury my daughter ever had, which was a severe sprain. She didn't break her wrist, but it was a severe sprain and she got that from just rolling off the couch. These accidents can happen anywhere and also explain that risky play is not the same as hazardous play.
Speaker 2:Some people prefer to call it adventurous play because it's a little less charged. Think of it as children's way of learning how to manage risk. If they're not exposed to risk, then they cannot learn how to manage it properly. So I'd say children are far safer if they learn to navigate risk early on. And even little crawling babies can participate in risky play. That could be as little as just trying to crawl up on a log, for example. You got to adapt it to the child.
Speaker 2:Another important point to make is that as the adult, you need to practice standing back and really trusting the child, because children are really wired to seek out the challenges that their bodies need and crave. And are they going to get into trouble? Sometimes Absolutely, and there will be times where you need to step in and prevent them from doing something dangerous, because they also don't have consequential thinking or they don't always understand the consequences of their actions. In general, children are very good at knowing what their bodies need and as adults we should not push them to take more risks than they're comfortable with, but we shouldn't hold them back either. So the beauty really happens when you find that sort of balance where you watch them doing something that challenges them just enough and watching them grow from that. And that's really what I try to encourage parents and caregivers to do to just challenge themselves a little bit, to stand back and allow that magic to happen.
Speaker 1:Remember, actually, right after I read your book for the first time, sitting with my son and we were out in an icy creek and he was trying to get something in the creek and I was certain he was not going to be able to reach it with the stick that he had, my first instinct was to tell him to stop. He wasn't going to be able to do it, it was a little dangerous and I, like I said I just finished your book and so I stopped myself, I didn't, I sat back and I let him do it and he ended up like throwing the stick and letting the water push it forward, like he figured it out, and I was just like, ok, yeah, you did figure it out and you did it in a way that I would have never thought of. Yeah, antidotally, that is 100 percent true.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I love it For the kids or caregivers who resist going outside, maybe the ones who didn't get that early childhood exposure. How do we, or even the teenagers who still resist it, how do we get them comfortable outside or encourage outdoor play without it being too pushy? Or how do you slowly incorporate it in for somebody who didn't grow up with it and have it in their daily lives?
Speaker 2:So it's really two questions Like what do we do when there's partly the caregivers and then there's the kids too? But if we start with the caregivers, just encouraging them to come along, maybe you can do some activities together. I know some schools or some preschools that have an outdoor program, or for a school is that they invite the parents some days or some evenings. They'll have like a campfire night when they invite the parents and show them what they do. So that's one way trying to involve the parents and, again, just surreptitiously placing those little resource books and other resources where they will find them. Also, as a caregiver, of course, you can always try to latch on to other like-minded caregivers to get outside and with the kids.
Speaker 2:I think when my children, when they were little, I never presented outdoor play as choice or if we go outside. It was always when we go outside and was just part of our life. So if the kid is resisting, then you can always try and give them different choices that you think they might go for. We can do X or we can do Y, but we are going to go outside. That way they come to view it as normal and expected to be outside regardless of the weather and with the older kids, I think, trading screen time for green time if they do have, if they're allowed screens, then that is one way that that's a bargain and chip you can definitely use.
Speaker 2:I see sometimes my neighbors here. They had two boys they're older now but when they were little and they were into gaming a lot, all of a sudden I would just see them doing whaps around the house and I was wondering what that was all about. So I talked to their dad and they wanted more screen time. But we have this deal If they want more screen time and I don't know what the original time span was, but if they want more, then they have to be out for X amount of time or they have to run X number of laps around the house.
Speaker 2:And I was like, okay, if that works for you then. So I think all kids are so different. You just have to. It's hard to give a recipe that is going to work on every child. You just really have to see what works for your child. It's an ongoing process of trial and error. My kids are now 14 and 17 and I'm still there and of course the older they get, the less influence you have over them and the more I have to give up some of that.
Speaker 2:You're saying even you struggle to get your kids outside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people look at me sometimes like, yes, my son is obsessed with video games and I have to frighten him to go outside. So even the nature obsessed moms struggle.
Speaker 2:It's not the parents' fault that the kids resist. That's just part of modern life. And what childhood is today? We didn't have all that entertainment when we grew up. I was a kid in the 80s and the outdoors was the place to be. That's where everything happened, that's where you had the freedom to explore and do things and that's where your friends were.
Speaker 2:Today, kids are inside. They default, I think, to the indoors. Today they have so much entertainment in their homes they don't have that same motivation to go outside. It's another way of getting them more motivated to go outside, to hold off on introducing those. And, of course, as a caregiver, you may not be in complete control of that. And even as a parent, if your kid goes to daycare, then you're not going to be in control of what happens there. So all we can do is our best with what we have, at least if the kids have devices, set limits on them and make sure that they have a chance to experience that type of outdoor play where they have to use their creativity and imagination outdoors before they get hooked on screens, which may be inevitable eventually. Even that, because that's just how the algorithms work they're designed to keep us scrolling.
Speaker 1:For sure and I think the essence of that is so important is do your best. Yeah, you know the influencers even out there who are showing their kids homeschooling and foraging all day long. So even there, they're sitting and posting videos on Instagram, so they're clearly in it too. Yeah, just remember that nothing on the internet is real and that just do your best every day, I think is important. I love it. That's all. That was all my planned questions, so I want to hop over to the chat and if anybody else has any questions, we've got about eight minutes left, so pop them in there. We have one wanting to learn more about the myopia that you mentioned at the beginning, that eye development, and I know I think it's an open air life that you dive into it a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mentioned it in my first book too.
Speaker 1:I can't remember which one, but Can you talk a little bit more?
Speaker 2:about that and how.
Speaker 2:Sure. So what? We're seeing this epidemic, especially in some Asian countries. Kids spend a lot of time indoors. At first, researchers thought it had to do with screen time. Their eyes weren't developing normally because they were spending too much time like this. But what they were surprised to find was that it wasn't really the screen per se, but it was the lack of daylight.
Speaker 2:The daylight helps the eye develop normally. It has to do with and I'm not an eye expert, but the daylight helps the eye grow into a normal shape. And the other thing is, when we're outdoors, the eye also practices from looking at objects that are close to objects that are far away. We shift more frequently between objects that are close and far away. So that too helps eye development. Now, I'm not saying that's the only thing that influences eye development. I'm not saying that if your child is nearsighted you have failed to parent, but I'm saying that if your child is outdoors, a lot chances are that they are have a lower risk of becoming near sight and something about morning sunlight is more effective too, right, like healthier for eyes, if I remember correctly I don't know, I think I wanted this about morning sunlight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure it has to do with eye development, but it does help regulate the hormones, melatonin especially to do with the temperature of the light.
Speaker 2:Yes, so to get the biggest effect on sleep, the morning daylight is the most effective. And one thing that I did not go into detail in my book on is how here in the Scandinavian countries, like this time of the year, it's almost light 24-7. But it's interesting how that affects you, because I noticed such a big difference between the dark season, when we only have about six hours of daylight, and now where it's like the opposite, we don't even have six hours of darkness, we have hours of twilight and some sort of darkness. But like my energy, there's no comparison. Like I am so much more energetic this time of the year. So it is funny like you live on these latitudes. It's just a whole different ball game. So some of this advice probably doesn't really apply correctly when the difference is so extreme.
Speaker 1:Even living less so extreme latitude. I'm in the Midwest, yeah, just coming out of winter now. I 100% like this seasonal, whether it's true. Seasonal depression or you just feel that lower energy, higher energy, it is so real. Seasonal depression or you just feel that lower energy, higher energy, it is so real and it's so important. I love it. Amazing. I think that's all the time we have today. Thank you so much for being here. It has been so wonderful. If there's any one final piece of advice you could give to caregivers wanting to get outside with their kids, what's your one thing that you want to leave them?
Speaker 2:with. Oh, I think I might just repeat what I said earlier with a start where you are and use what you have and do what you can Really the best advice I have. It doesn't have to be an epic location or a grand adventure, so just do what you can, because those daily interactions with nature around us that's going to do more to wire that child's brain and that's going to be ingrained in their memory Amazing. Thank you so much, linda. This has been so wonderful. Thank you for having me. I enjoyed chatting with you, as always.
